Apropos to the previous entry, we might have a Rob Neyer moment here.
In the snippet, Redford claims to have been in New York where he attended a Yankees-Red Sox game. He mentions that Maris and Mantle were in the lineup, but not Williams. He doesn’t give a date, but it had to have been 1960 — Williams’ last year — since Maris came over to the Yankees in a trade from Kansas City in December 1959.
According to Retrosheet.org, Williams appeared in the June 3 game as a pinch hitter in the eighth inning; he flied out to right. He started the first game of a June 5 doubleheader and hit a homer. Williams didn’t appear in another game at Yankee Stadium until September 5, starting the first game of a doubleheader (0-3) and appearing in the nightcap as a pinch hitter, when he received an intentional walk. He started the next day and hit another homer run before leaving the game for a pinch runner in the seventh.
That’s it. Redford’s magical memory? Unless I misread the information (always a possibility), it never happened.
Oh, and by the way, Redford said he was 19 at the time. According to IMDB.com, he was born in August, 1936, so he would have been 23 or 24 in 1960. So, at the suggestion of a colleague at work (undoubtedly a Redford fan), I checked the games of 1954-56. Result: In the three years Williams made four pinch hit appearances against the Yankees at Yankee Stadium; he walked twice, singled once, and flied out the other time.
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I can’t see the video, so perhaps that explains more. I can only go by what your wrote in your blog, I don’t see much of a mystery here, since he’s claiming Williams wasn’t in the line-up. So perhaps Redford was at one of the games where Williams pinch hit, but he stepped off the men’s room, or something, or was talking with a friend, and didn’t realize Williams came into the game. As for the age, he’s 72. Remembering being 19 or 23 doesn’t seem like much of a big deal. Last, you should have checked ’55-’56, not ’54, when he was only 17 or 18.
I can’t see the video, so perhaps that explains more. I can only go by what your wrote in your blog, I don’t see much of a mystery here, since he’s claiming Williams wasn’t in the line-up. So perhaps Redford was at one of the games where Williams pinch hit, but he stepped off the men’s room, or something, or was talking with a friend, and didn’t realize Williams came into the game. As for the age, he’s 72. Remembering being 19 or 23 doesn’t seem like much of a big deal. Last, you should have checked ’55-’56, not ’54, when he was only 17 or 18.
For those who can’t see the video, go to Youtube and type in “Robert Redford, Ted Williams” in the search box. That should get you to the HBO clip.
For those who can’t see the video, go to Youtube and type in “Robert Redford, Ted Williams” in the search box. That should get you to the HBO clip.
Looks like he just fuzzy on a couple things. He probably came to NYC when he was 19, but saw the game a little later. He also probably didn’t correctly remember the lineup because he was more focused on seeing Ted than anything else (that’s the way he seems to be reminiscing in the video anyway).
Check out the September 20, 1957 game at Yankee stadium. It doesn’t have Maris, of course, but Mantle was in the game. Ted Williams hit a pinch-hit home run in the ninth inning off Whitey Ford (into the RF bleachers). Seems to fit the story fairly well.
Looks like he just fuzzy on a couple things. He probably came to NYC when he was 19, but saw the game a little later. He also probably didn’t correctly remember the lineup because he was more focused on seeing Ted than anything else (that’s the way he seems to be reminiscing in the video anyway).
Check out the September 20, 1957 game at Yankee stadium. It doesn’t have Maris, of course, but Mantle was in the game. Ted Williams hit a pinch-hit home run in the ninth inning off Whitey Ford (into the RF bleachers). Seems to fit the story fairly well.
Kudos on going the extra mile/year, Ken. I just plain didn’t want to go through so many permutations. Would have been even better if Retrosheet’s data mentioned where Williams’ homer went, since Redford specified he was seated in right field.
Kudos on going the extra mile/year, Ken. I just plain didn’t want to go through so many permutations. Would have been even better if Retrosheet’s data mentioned where Williams’ homer went, since Redford specified he was seated in right field.
Baseball-reference has that detail in the box score for that game.
Baseball-reference has that detail in the box score for that game.
Ron:
You’re wrong here: it did happen, and you gave the information yourself: in the June 3rd game, you say Williams pinch hit in the 8th inning. So he wasn’t really ‘in the lineup’ that day. It requires a relatively traditional definition, but to me ‘in the lineup’ means starting the game. Of course, the looser interpretation would acknowledge that once Williams pinchhit, he was THEN in the lineup. But I’m sure you see the point: in Redford’s fictional account, when he arrived at the game and perused the lineups, he would have noted that Maris and Mantle were in the lineup, and that Ted Williams was not.
Ok, so a bit persnickety, but not altogether unfair!
Regards (and love your site),
Brian
Ron:
You’re wrong here: it did happen, and you gave the information yourself: in the June 3rd game, you say Williams pinch hit in the 8th inning. So he wasn’t really ‘in the lineup’ that day. It requires a relatively traditional definition, but to me ‘in the lineup’ means starting the game. Of course, the looser interpretation would acknowledge that once Williams pinchhit, he was THEN in the lineup. But I’m sure you see the point: in Redford’s fictional account, when he arrived at the game and perused the lineups, he would have noted that Maris and Mantle were in the lineup, and that Ted Williams was not.
Ok, so a bit persnickety, but not altogether unfair!
Regards (and love your site),
Brian
Thanks, Brian, but the point is, and I think this is the main one, that Redford had Williams in a heroic moment, by hitting a home run. If you look at that game, however, Williams flied out.
Thanks, Brian, but the point is, and I think this is the main one, that Redford had Williams in a heroic moment, by hitting a home run. If you look at that game, however, Williams flied out.
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